I keep playing smash 4 online more and more. last night, the last three guys I played were in a completely different league from the players i have been destroying lately. i use shiek:

and now that i'm getting the hang of the 3ds controllers more i'm able to dominate more matches, and i went from struggling to play smash 4 newbies (which mean SOMETIMES beating them) to embarrasing them with a 2 stock finish and sometimes even taking less than 10% damage. hell, i'll even use my not-so-good character with the new guys and still embarass them:

so even though i'm not TRYING to get better, as in, i'm not comparmentalizing aspects of the game and practicing them repetitively (just like i would in Project M and Melee), i'm still getting better results just carried over from those two games as well as getting a better grasp at my 3ds. now, if winning at smash 4 would actually take me somewhere else in life i would probably play it past my toilet and before i go to bed. where it stands, it's fun but i'm still not convinced it's super competitive.

now, i said i was going to reply to you kilin so here it is:

http://www.64digits.com/users/index.php?userid=Reiddsan&cmd=comments&id=503694#11

unfortunately, i never played Brawl too well because of how slow every move felt. i can't comment on lucas' performance there in detail because i didn't play lucas too well. i remember certain aspects from casual play: his upsmash hits like a bag of bricks, his side smash is a bitchslap to the face, and back-air is a meteor. past that, his moveset isn't that impressive not because of the sizes of the hitboxes or the damage or knockback they do – i believe you, his attacks probably land harder than say, jigglypuff or ness, but its their SPEED. it's soooo slow, i remember i could punish slow attacks on reaction.

oh lucas, you're going to foward-air me in the air? let me just metaknight fair you, or snake up-smash you, or falco back-air, ALL much faster and hell even have more knockback. not only that, but you have to have very good accuracy with these moves to land a DECENT hit, not even a stock-taking hit like falco's backair (that is reliably a kill move). i can't think of ever looking at brawl tournament footage, or anyone really, use lucas just because of how punishable his attacks were since they took years to start up. smash is a game of percentage and stocks, and it doesn't matter how good your attacks are, if they come out too late when you're trying to put out a hitbox, then they might as well not exist.

this isn't even a broken character matchup and i'll show you how slow he can be if you simply pick a slightly faster character:

the earliest attacks hit on frames 4 and 5. upair and downair. ok. both are useful if the opponent is below or above you. ok gotcha. but these don't work – you have to get your opponent in that position first through damage. lucas never gets this chance because of his slow attacks. his on-stage aerials that CAN deal decent damage and don't require three years to come out of cooldown are fair and bair. when do they start? frames 15 and 9. when can say, falco do this?

falco literally beats him in the aerial game in everything, even in his useless fair. not only that, but his back air kills at lower percentage, and so does his down air, and hell nair is just so big it makes lucas' nair look like a joke.

Brawl was not made at all with a competitive mindset. in fact, it was made with the OPPOSITE goal, of being a party game. going over frame data like i just did with the concept of knowing more about the game to get a competitive edge on your opponents is about as useful as picking up a wooden chess piece to feel how heavy it is and to consider when you think the weight of the piece will begin to matter. point. less. you know why falco wins vs. lucas? it's not necessarily because of his stronger attacks, or his faster attacks, or his bigger hitboxes. no, i'll tell you why, and this is why i hate brawl.

it's because falco's downthrow is a stupid guaranteed chaingrab:

the cpu's aren't escaping because they're stupid. no, they literally have nothing to do to counter this. they just have to sit there and take it.

so yeah, some of brawl's characters in casual play are fun to play as, because they're MEANT to be a party game. in reality, just use metaknight and snake, maybe even falco or ice-climbers if you want to be cheap, and you'll win a tournament. like i already said, i like earthbound, but i didn't like lucas' or ness's designs because to me, they weren't rewarding to play. i'd much rather play a faster character like toon link or pit, because they have a chance to hit first before they get hit because of slow hitboxes.

greninja's moveset is weird, but i picked up on it not by choice but by accident: i went on for glory 1-on-1 and left my 3ds alone for a minute, next thing i know i start a match with a randomly selected character against an opponent already, and of course greninja was picked for me. i won.

ugh, i just don't like his slower attacks. he suffers a lucas syndrome: good attacks, slow startup. i hate characters like this because i want to hit when i want to hit, not when my character decides to wake up to put up a hitbox. the only reason i was able to pick him up is because of how his moves worked:

greninja's backair is a lot like megaman's backair

greninja's upair is the exact same thing as shiek's upair

greninja's nair is like a very small sex kick

greninja's dair is much like toon link's dair

his foward smash is also a lot like a slow version of mewtwo's side-tilt but can kill, which was nice, and it's movement reminds me of shiek.

shulk is useless, not let anyone else tell u otherwise. waaaaaaaaaaaaay too slow. i love the character but i can't use him because of how slow he is. he's really not feeling it.

duck hunt has MAD stage control. he has projectiles everywhere when he feels like it and where you'll get your options cut out.

i haven't seen a competent rosalina yet, but has potential with big hitboxes and the ability to allow luma to seperate and attack from a different position

robin's hitboxes are VERY powerful, but small, and have a TON of endlag. MEGAMAN has a TON of both STARTUP lag AND ENDLAG (which i use anyway because he feels like a less retarded falco with his very nice jumps) and i was STILL able to make robin my bitch after i learned how small the hitboxes are and how easy they are to avoid. this is one of the characters i 2-stocked with less than 10% on more than one occassion

no.

well good for them, i know what i had fun with. maybe i'm getting too old and i like my old games, or maybe i really am spot on and there's no way ssb4 can stay competitive and outlive games like melee and project m, but in either case, even if a competitive scene grows, i can't see myself playing smash 4 for competition. even NOW that i'm doing better i still see faults that keep me from thinking i'll go pro at this game.

we are definitely not playing the same smash 4 at all. this is nowhere near true. you're saying that this:

is more reliable than this?

i hate sarcasm with a passion (and i'm not talking about you), but the only way i can demonstrate what i want to say is through this sarcastic guy:

things that smash 4 players DON'T say

"remember that time i read your roll at it worked?" smash 4 in a nutshell. no rewarding attack for reading something so easy for the opponent to do.

avoid these:

shulk

falco

robin

palutina

olimar

link

lucario (predictable recovery)

ike

main these:

shiek

mario

little mac

lucina

maybe marth

duck hunt

pacman

maybe villager

pikachu

zero-suit