1. That is not hate, any more than saying that homosexuality is a sin is hate. Hate is saying "You're evil! Die!" It is wanting to destroy that which you consider evil - NOT trying to save it. Fact is, while those jihadists over there would like nothing better than to murder every single one of us "infidels," I have the opposite desire. I'd like to save you; and if I can't, I'm certainly not going on the warpath.

This is one of the single saddest things about this culture of "tolerance." They seem to tolerate everything - abnormal sexual actions, murder for pleasure, gambling, drinking, drugs, hate against Christianity (as you earlier demonstrated, OL) - but not Christianity.

Let me say this once and for all. BELIEVING THAT SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT IS NOT THE SAME AS HATING THOSE WHO PRACTICE IT!

By your own arguments, OL, you hate Christians. You believe that we are wrong; therefore, you hate us.

Truth be told, there is only one religion that is correct. That religion is Christianity. Every other religion is wrong. You believe a similar thing - in your mind, every religion is wrong. What you have just posted is outright lunacy, to accuse us of hate when all we want to do is help.

You claim to be tolerant, yet you can't tolerate anyone who isn't as tolerant of lies as you are.

2. You also twisted the last think you "quoted" from me in a manner that even news reporters should be ashamed of. What I said was this:

"You aren't commanded by Satan - he's not the Big Red Guy with horns and a fiery throne, but a spirit of evil who is destined to be tormented in Hell for all eternity." You intentionally deleted part of my statement to make it look bad. That, sir, is dishonest and rude.

->Bryan: Religion is not for the weak. If anything, it is for the strong - Christianity is very demanding. It asks us to give up sinful acts and ways and act as Christ would act - we cannot do this successfully, but we are supposed to try. I do not understand why people like you think this way, when it is obviously not true. Think of all the martyrs over the centuries - people who head out and DIE for their faith. Are they weak? NO! Missionaries are routinely killed in the field - from disease, by hostile natives, by the environment itself. Yet they continue to go out and spread the truth to those who, in all honesty, are more eager to listen than all you so-called "intellectuals."

The dictionary defines hatred as "Intense animosity or hostility." Now, if I felt intense animosity or hostility towards homosexuals, believing as I do, the logical thing would be to ignore them completely - then they'd be headed to Hell. BUT I DON'T! I'm out here, debating, trying to SAVE those you claim I hate! Why can't you see? WHY?

Is there anything wrong with siblings voting? Two of those four siblings are also game makers, and I don't think there's anything wrong with them voting for me, considering that the friends of the maker of Narf Wars were voting for him before the contest even started.

The contest ends Saturday 9:30 PM, by the way.

I don't hate Christianity, or any religion.

What I HATE is when religion starts affecting me or other people who do not wish it to. For instance people telling me I'm a sinner and I will burn in hell, or people knocking on my door and forcing their beliefs on me. Or governments run under then banner of religion and claim to be acting under God. Or when schools try to preach religion sneakily in class or assembely. Or when certain religions get special treatment, such as being allowed to wear a full body veil all the time.

I don't hate religion, I hate its effects and the way it is used. You can keep your beliefs for all I care, just don't force them on to me or others.

You're right it isn't, but the way you and many of your fanatical followers talk about their reservations they certainly sound to be full of hate.

You need to take a step back and see what you are saying. What you said was offensive and demeaning. You put shame on humanity.

That doesn't make sense, but I have already explained my self. I 'm tollerant as long as the point in question does not affect me or others who do not wish it to. Many Christians take their beliefs too far from what I have seen on TV.

How I quoted it was how I interpreted it. Looking at that again I did misinterpret it, I thought you were saying I was commanded by a "spirit of evil" (as opposed to Satan) or something of the sort, hence the removal of the extra information regarding Satan's description. I appologise for that.

When he says weak, he means weak minded. Religion does not allow you to think freeley, it is for lazy thinkers who want to be told how to live their lives as without the magical Bible book they simply wouldn't have a clue.

What you said is CERTAINLY hostile towards anyone who does not believe in what you do. Do you hear me saying all Christians will all rot and burn in a forsaken place?

"I don't hate religion, I hate its effects and the way it is used. You can keep your beliefs for all I care, just don't force them on to me or others."

1. If I were to ignore you, OL, then according to what I believe, I would be sentencing you to something so horrible that exaggeration is impossible in describing it.

2. You seem to have a lot of good to say about things like macroevolution, which is routinely and only taught in public schools as truth. You don't seem to have a problem with teaching that homosexuality is good and proper, as certain parties have attempted to do in public schools. When you stop doing what you complain about, then you can talk about forcing views on others.

"You're right it isn't, but the way you and many of your fanatical followers talk about their reservations they certainly sound to be full of hate."

3. I do not have followers. You confuse Christianity with other things yet again. The online dictionary defines "fanatical" as "Possessed with or motivated by excessive, irrational zeal." Yet this is not true of me, or of other Christians. I have looked at the Bible. I have looked at the evidence, and I have looked at both sides of the issue. I have thought about this, and come to the conclusion that the Bible is right. And then, I came over here to try to get you to believe that, too - because I believe that if you don't, you're doomed. Yet here you sit, claiming that I am a "fanatical, hateful christian."

"You need to take a step back and see what you are saying. What you said was offensive and demeaning. You put shame on humanity."

4. I have already explained in detail why it was neither offensive nor demeaning, but true. It is no more offensive to say that homosexuality is wrong, or that atheism is wrong, than it is to explain to a three-year-old who put down the wrong answer on a test that two plus two is actually four, not seven. You relativists - you people who care more about not insulting anyone's intelligence than about enforcing the true answers in people's minds so that the next time they see that problem on the blackboard, they know the answer and can put down four, not seven. Sure, they may have a bit less of an ego problem - but they got the answer right, and that's worth it.

"That doesn't make sense, but I have already explained my self. I 'm tollerant as long as the point in question does not affect me or others who do not wish it to."

5. Have you ever gone to school? It's a horrible place, you know. Teachers who actually enforce one view of things, and who will tell you when you've got the problem wrong. 'Oh, my poor, injured ego!'

"When he says weak, he means weak minded. Religion does not allow you to think freeley, it is for lazy thinkers who want to be told how to live their lives as without the magical Bible book they simply wouldn't have a clue."

6. I'll have you know that I am no lazy thinker. I consider my mind and intellect to be the greatest of my natural attributes, and treat it as such. It is not necessarily the mark of genius to rewrite the textbooks; more scientific advances have been made by building on top of previous work than by striking out on one's own. It's better to have a slightly improved car that can be mass-produced and upgraded again later than the amazing framework of a new type of transportation, which will take hundreds of millions of dollars and years of incremental work to put into production.

It is a proven fact that even with external guidance, HUMANS SIN. Without it, sin becomes even more prevalent. There is no one on earth who is able to live a good life. I can't, you can't. Trust me - I've tried to change areas of my life in which I sin, and I can't do it on my own. Who, then, is the fool - the one who accepts his own limitations, or the one who does not?

"What you said is CERTAINLY hostile towards anyone who does not believe in what you do. Do you hear me saying all Christians will all rot and burn in a forsaken place?"

7. No - I hear you saying that all Christians are wrong and should be locked up in a little corner where their dangerous teachings of moral responsibility and a greater truth can't hurt any of the precious "free thinkers" of the modern era. Fact is, anyone who does not hold their belief to be the correct one does not truly believe.

First off, science is not just a view or belief. Science is based on proven fact. Religion is based on ideas and belief. They are simply not the same.

I CERTAINLY DO believe that the religious views (creationism/ID included) should be taught in classes, in a Religious class. I was taught all about various religions in a Religion class at school.

I CERTAINLY DO NOT believe that religious views should be taught in Science classes, which is where there lies a problem and I think you must agree that religion simply is not science.

I've never seen or heared of homosexuality being taught as 'good and propper' in schools. Ever. Not even from America. When I did sex ed in school I dont even remember them saying anything AT ALL about gays.

I DO NOT think that it should be taught as being 'good and propper' either! Though I beleive people have their freedom and can do it if they want to.

You seem to make judgements before you know what I truley believe. Just because I don't make bold statements against something doesn't mean I think it's right. Please understand that.

I didn't claim you was fanatical. I said there are fanatical followers of your religion - as there are every religion.

You got the wrong end of the stick. I don't care about people expressing their views or teaching them to people who want to hear. I don't care about being told I'm wrong if I rightfully am. I care about them causing problems. Like 'holy' wars, or at least wars under the banner of religion. I already mentioned a ton of examples where religion causes problems you simply skipped over. Here they are again:

"What I HATE is when religion starts affecting me or other people who do not wish it to. For instance people telling me I'm a sinner and I will burn in hell, or people knocking on my door and forcing their beliefs on me. Or governments run under then banner of religion and claim to be acting under God. Or when schools try to preach religion sneakily in class or assembely. Or when certain religions get special treatment, such as being allowed to wear a full body veil all the time."

A lazy mind is not nessecaraly a stupid one. It is one that does not always think for its self. It is one that had it's morals from just being human, instead of being told them. It is one that forms its own views and beliefs and does not always conform to what somebody or something else says.

ACCORDING TO YOU.

Hey, you suggested it, I've never said anything explicitly like that. I hardly even implied anything. You on the other hand did.

Agreed on that.

Ok, this is getting old. You don't want to be told you're wrong unless you are, but you won't listen to anyone who says you are even if they're right.

Note: When I say "you," I am often referring not to you specifically, but to atheists or other groups you (the specific you) claim to be a member of in general.

"ACCORDING TO YOU." - Find one person - just one - who is able to live a good life - no sinning, no pride, no lying, nothing - and I will abdicate this debate in favor of you, and yield all points.

""What I HATE is when religion starts affecting me or other people who do not wish it to. For instance people telling me I'm a sinner and I will burn in hell, or people knocking on my door and forcing their beliefs on me. Or governments run under then banner of religion and claim to be acting under God. Or when schools try to preach religion sneakily in class or assembely. Or when certain religions get special treatment, such as being allowed to wear a full body veil all the time.""

Let's answer these in order.

1. You will burn in Hell, along with the father of lies, unless we reach you. That's what we believe. It's why we're out there, trying to save your skeptic hide. You can at least be grateful.

2. The only religion that runs government is false religion. I can think of two obvious examples:

* Islam, which is an evil, militant religion when you get down to it, and

* 16th century catholicism, which was in essence a perversion of Christianity. They took the Bible and added things to it that were never said, and so it failed. That's why the Protestant Reformation took place.

In contrast, you have one religion which did the opposite. That religion is Protestant Christianity, and it established the America of today complete with the "freedom of religion" clause. Quit trying to fit all religions into one bag - there's one religion that just won't fit in.

3. Schools try to preach religion - oh, goodness gracious! There's a glut of biology and physics textbooks out there claiming that mankind descended from apes, which descended from fish - and on one gives a lead penny about it. Then a school in Alaska decides to teach what it believes and SUDDENLY everyone's up in arms. In all seriousness, you aren't the majority here. In this DEMOCRATIC society, of which seventy-something percent claim to be Christian, you by all rights ought to be resigned to no more than thirty percent of the textbooks. Yet you complain and moan and try to keep a Christian student from PRAYING at her graduation. Do yourself a favor, why don't you - find some ground to stand on.

4. Are you saying that if you walk outside with a full-body veil you'll be hauled off the streets? I didn't think so. Next question?

"A lazy mind is not nessecaraly a stupid one. It is one that does not always think for its self. It is one that had it's morals from just being human, instead of being told them. It is one that forms its own views and beliefs and does not always conform to what somebody or something else says."

- I have done so. I have sat back and thought about this, and I have come up with the following answer: The Bible is right. Now, I don't know what you meant, but what you've been implying throughout this debate is that Christians are weak-minded because they believe Christianity rather than believing what you believe - because, in your mind, anyone who actually thinks about this should come to the same conclusion that you did.

Wrong on all points.

You don't have to be an atheist to think about things. Christianity does not suppress free thought - in fact, I'd say that a very large portion of those who are Christian are Christian not because they are weak thinkers, but because they thought about it and believed. From the natives of South America who listen to the missionaries to the teenagers who nearly give up, yet decide in the end not to, Christians are not weak-minded or weak-willed. We are, however, able to see the limitations to human morality, and willing to do something about it.

Oh, and by the way, re-read what you wrote for the above quote, why don't you? While I answered what you meant, what you said is pretty amusing when you get down to it.