Teams? - all worthless!

Posted by paul23 on Dec. 17, 2007, 5:04 a.m.

Seems like I'm not really a frequent blogger after all, I wanted to write this blog for a long time already but never really found the time to write it "all" out.

This is a small "rant" about, well I don't know exactly, I guess about all those peope who want to make a team but are completely incapable! Or well even more specifically: those who are capable to draw my attention by being decent, but after all turn out to lack the real determination! Though I'm currently in a team (and they probably start to hate me for this blog: I'm going to use this team as lot of examples how a good thing can start turning wrong).

Well I am a "programmer" bad in and really not interested in making graphics or doing audio. I want to make an engine, and I don't want to spent time looking for (or even worse: creating) graphics and sounds. - Also I just found out I'm actually bad at game design too! This is why I'm always looking for a team, and I almost never ever release anything (and once I release anything it simply gets overlooked, but that's another story).

Anyway one of the main problems - and the main reason I quitted any teams - is that the teams simply don't set realistic goals. Too often you'll find a team who want to create a new "multiplayer game". - I'm find with that, with some reading it should be possible indeed! However when the first thing they do is design the interface of the "meetingroom", I know enough: these people aren't capable of doing something in multiplayer: they don't even know the order of importance/difficulty. (and one of the most important things when making a program: first focus on all difficult aspects, then the easier aspects and finally combine everything).

Or another typical problem with a team: they want to make more and more, always thinking of new "ideas".. Which results into many projects at the same time going on, sometimes even more projects than team members! I.e. take the team I'm into now already: only 5-6 active members, and already 5 different projects. Ranging from a typical rts to 3d fps to even a C++ application!

This brings me to the other point of non-realistic goals: You know there's a reason why I program in gamemaker and not in C(++) or any other language? Well there is, apart from not being able to program in C(++) to the point of being efficient (though I could learn that in a (few) months, I also use gm because it efficiency when it comes down to actual programming! Being experienced a bit with JAVA (had a course of several months in JAVA), I still wasn't able to produce anything of the same quality as in GM. Now even if I would like to program in C++, I wouldn't be looking at the gmc for a team! - I would be looking at a site like gamedev.net or similar for a team..

The second main problem I experience when programming is that most other teams simply don't have the same "level" when doing something. It might seem very selfish (and maybe I am now) but it's simply what I've experienced: Whenever I make something in gm I simply don't be satisfied unless it's perfect! Almost isn't good enough! And whenever I open gm I open it because I want to make something new, to look for another limit of gm, to increase my programming knowlenge!

Often when I try to make a certain script for something I make it first 4-5 times. Using all methods I can think about. Then I go testing, first to check for potential bugs and limitations (though I know most already when programming: whenever I "find" a limitation I immediately write it in a comment). And finaly, most importantly, the speed: I always test both the avarage speed (using "random" input), and the big O speed, the later also gives me more insight in the actual process which goes on. The resulting script will be the "perfect" script.

Now when I join a team I kind of expect the other team members to have the same attitude! How often I'm fooled with this…

Also -again I'm being selfish- I think I can go proud of my gm knowlenge. I haven't met at least any thing I couldn't make yet (unless it is thanks to some limitation in gm: like the speed). However in all teams I've been currently theo ther programmers weren't all that advanced. And in the end it seemed I was more like a mentor than a team member! - I always had to explain how to program somethinge efficient.

For example take the team I'm currently in, the project leader had programmed the game quite a bit already: it was a pretty active wip, so I thought he was good and coded efficient. What was I mistaken: The game was an rts (caw), and let me show you some examples. First of all he added this line:

global.team = "1"
to the creation event of a human object. that's like 3 problems in 1 line: first of all how would using a static teamnumber ever work? - then you would need to have multiple objects, for each team a new set of objects..

Secondly why using a string? at start I thought he maybe only used it for drawing. However he never ever used it as a string, and at any event this variable was used, he started his event with
global.team = real(global.team)
and ended the event with
global.team = string(global.team
. - He literary did it 68 times! Did it never came to his mind using a real value would be easier?

Another great example is an ifstatement he used to check wether an object was an "enemy":

if (other.object_index = obj_enemy_townhall || other.object_index = obj_enemy_barracks || 
other.object_index = obj_enemy_archery || other.object_index = obj_enemy_human)
and it was even longer: basically another "or" for every object used! - Did it came never to his mind using parents would be easier?

I don't have anything against people who are less "good" at programming than me: I've been bad at one point too. And I actually like explaining things (that's probably the main reason I stick to the Q&A boards of the gmc), however I would like to work together with people with about the same knowlenge as me (preferably a bit higher so I get to learn :) ) sometimes too!

These are my main 2 reason I often start loosing interest in teams. (but thanks to specialization issues, and lack of any experience in any of the other aspects of game design apart from programming I always come back to join a team again!

The team I'm currently in (and especially the project) is called xsoft games and I'm working on a game called "cities at war". I've actually come to the point where I rewrote the entire engine (though nobody will notice, I kept as goal "optimizing without changing anything in the interface"). The team isn't really "bad', actually the programmers are pretty decent: they simply lack the experience to know how to make the right decisions in gm! For chirstmas - when I'm on holiday - the project leader (of which I talked a lot already in above paragraph) asked me to return the program to him so he could program the AI (and multiplayer). Normally I would gladly do this: however as you can see above he's not the best programmer in gm: sure he can program pretty well, but his code efficiency and optimazition is very bad.. And I really would like to make CAW actually a good game, however if I would return it to the project leader I'm afraid I might have to rewrite the game again.

So far my ranting, to end this blog I'll put up some questionaire:

Quote:
1) have you ever been in a team yourself (if so which?)?

1a) Did that team actually release anything?

1b) Do you actually consider that team "advanced"?

2) Do you know other teams which are supposed to be "advanced"?

3) how long have you been using GM already?

4) - or any other programming languages?

5) do you consider yourself "fluent" with any language? - which?

6) Do you also try to achieve perfectionism when working with gamemaker (or basically when doing anything), or do you rather do a quick job - "as long as it does work it's ok"?

6) what should I do this christams? return the program or first try to explain it thoroughly -and try to make him program a bit better? (see above paragraph)

-paul23

PS: well I know it might seem actually bad, but really join xsoftgames! - if some other advanced people would join it it would really become a great team: it has already a pretty solid base!

Comments

Legolas710 16 years, 10 months ago

1) XSoft Games

1a) Not yet

1b) I consider some aspects of our team advanced, yes

2) Well, I don't usually pay that much attention to other teams :P

3) Since 2002-2004

4) Probably at about the same time

5) I consider myself fluent with some languages, which are probably GML, VB, XHTML, and PHP (I know the last two are web languages)

6) Yes, I try to achieve perfection on any games or anything that I make

We don't really hate you that much ;P

You are a pretty good programmer, and we need other advanced people like you said. We actually are going to ask some of the inactive members to leave (like the ones that didn't even register at the forums), and get some active members even though we stopped allowing people to join some time ago. =D