64Digits

Kenon's opinon on V3 (Arg Over)

Posted by Kenon on Oct. 5, 2007, 6:34 p.m.

Quote: MSN Convo with The Irony Tree or Mr.Pacman

MrPacman says:

I doubt it as well. DF made 2 useful features in 2 days… which we had been requesting since V3 was announced. Also, if you guys truly had lives and weren't busy, then what the hell is up with you guys being so active and not doing anything? Also, JakeX isn't very active, now is he? Is it because he has a life? NO, he's made 3-4 games since V3 was announced and now. Tell me you guys have lives ag

Ok, that line/paragraph pissed me off bad.

Why? Because the reason V3 isn't done yet is more complex than the staff having lives! I'm going to compare V3 to something I know that is very similar: PLatformed.

The mistake both made is that we gave our creations TOO MUCH publicity, even if we didn't intend it. The wierd thing is, not many people think that when you get to a certain amount of publicity, you don't want to work. WELL, IT'S FUCKING TRUE. I know from experience. So to all of you complaining, have you ever considered that THE PUBLICITY THAT YOU GAVE V3 CAUSED IT TO BE DELAYED? The amount of publicity it gets from that, negative or positive, makes the creator uninspired to work on it in some cases.

To most of you, you don't understand how that is possible. Well, get it in your feeble brains. It's possible, and it happens. Don't say "Kenon doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about" either, because I do. Why do you think PLatformed has been delayed so much? Sure, I'm a procrastinator, but I can still devote time to it. I'm doing that with an unmentioned game right now. The problem I had is that I was only trying to make enough to publicize it further, and I felt uninspired.

So please, shut the fuck up unless you know what you are saying. I don't like ranting like this, but I felt I had to go ahead and say this, because no one has stated (in my knowledge) that the problem came from too much publicity and hype by 64digits itself. I admit I was one who was excited, and couldn't wait, but I don't fucking complain about it not being here. I have better things to do with my time, like rant about people who complain about V3 and delay games.

EDIT: GML brought up a good point, especially that publicity alone does not delay things. It requires something else typically, whether it be laziness or simply feeling it's too much to do. But publicity adds a huge amount of pressure to it alone, and by the amount of publicity v3 got, compared to v2 (v2's announcement was back in the ages of <500 people, before I came, so I'm only assuming) is a staggering difference.

EDIT 2: The point of this blog was to achieve a median of the opinions. I think we might have reached something along these lines:

The v3 makers made the original mistake, catching everyone in a Catch-22. The pressure was one contributing factor to delays, as well as probably laziness or sheer overwhelmment, caused the delays. Either way, v3 isn't out yet, and that's all that matters.

Comments

Cesar 17 years, 1 month ago

Actually I have, Battlefront 2D was anticipated by many, however we canceled it due to an irrepairable bug and the team falling apart.

Anyways, publicity is what a maker does. If you're working on a secret project and you don't let anybody in on it, nobody will know about your project until its release. However, if you make more publicity than actual work and you hype it too much, demand for sooner release will appear.

A team is harder to sway since it is much harder to make a stubborn person in a group give in or the entire group to say that something is a good idea or not. However, a single person (like you) is easily swayed by ideas. Look at how many art transformations PLatformed has gone through. Or how many temporary cancellations to stop the demand occured.

The suggestions for V3 were to make the site even better, I mean, simply screen through the suggestions, choose the most asked for and add it. It is THAT SIMPLE.

You're just choosing to defend the staff even though they're being lazy on V3. Given they're doing a good job mantaining this site, it should take nowhere as long as over a year to make a design update. Canadonian made V 1.5 by himself and V2 didn't take very long to make either. It's a lack of proper leadership.

Kenon 17 years, 1 month ago

Quote:

Actually I have, Battlefront 2D was anticipated by many, however we canceled it due to an irrepairable bug and the team falling apart.

The suggestions for V3 were to make the site even better, I mean, simply screen through the suggestions, choose the most asked for and add it. It is THAT SIMPLE.

Oh yeah, Battlefront 2D. I remember that. Irreparable bug, eh?

Anyways, why can't you get it in your thick head that publicity might be caused by the maker, but it's also caused by the community. I admit that the demand for a fast release is due to amount of advertising the maker does, but alas, Publicity and Advertising are two different things, but still related.

I admit a team is harder to sway, but since it was a team, shouldn't it be done according to that? If the entire team was lazy, which would be a team of 3 or 4 people, then they would have worked as one. Possibly that half of them were uninspired, but they could not drop them. The expected time would rise considerably.

Also, v3 has gone through graphic changes too.

To be even better and more amazing, you can't just do what the public wants. You have to do more. Lets say you want $100. Would you take the $100, or wait a little while and get $120? Personally, I would pick the $120. Now assume all they had were coins. Would you wait for them to make it into paper currency, or would you take the coins? I would wait for convenience.

I'm defending the staff for a reason. It's not just because they're lazy, it's because there are psychological aspects other than laziness that people aren't thinking of. I see nothing wrong with a little wait, as I'm content with V2 right now.

Josea 17 years, 1 month ago

Quote:

compared to v2 (v2's announcement was back in the ages of <500 people, before I came, so I'm only assuming)

Ah, the times when FSX was being told everyday to work on v2. Good times.

Publicity indeeds adds pressure, but guess what, you can't blame that pressure on someone else since it was all your own fault. One has to think carefully when to advertise the game.

This bring me to the following conclusion: if you know you're lazy, you don't feel like you will pull off the game or you don't have that much interest in finishing it, don't go around advertising. Publicity is a resource that may work extremely well, or bring havoc to your game. It won't delay your game, in fact, early publicity can be a sign that it WILL get delayed.

Liek something I once heard: Finish product, then talk about it.

Josea 17 years, 1 month ago

Quote:

Sorry Kenon, but I fail to understand the point of that or relevance.

s 17 years, 1 month ago

Ya,when I mention working on something I make it obvious that I'm just browsing the stuff,and that if I get bored I'll drop it(Though I like to leave a source just for the whatev)

Still,publicity probably can go bad.That's why tis best to not attract til there is reason to do so

Kenon 17 years, 1 month ago

Quote: Josea

Ah, the times when FSX was being told everyday to work on v2. Good times.

Publicity indeeds adds pressure, but guess what, you can't blame that pressure on someone else since it was all your own fault. One has to think carefully when to advertise the game.

Liek something I once heard: Finish product, then talk about it.

I admit it is fault of the v3 staff at the beginning, but they made that mistake which caused the Catch-22 mistakingly. It's basically both sides are at fault, v3 staff for starting it, Community for continuing it. I know I won't be able to stop everyone from complaining about v3, but really. It just isn't quite as structured as it was.

Also, I just did that to illustrate a point of waiting. Basically, I'm considering amount of things in v3 to be money, and coin currency of said money to be a less presentable way. It's not really a good illustration.

Rez 17 years, 1 month ago

I could care less about V3, I have no beef with this site. Some members here are just good old fasion assholes.

Josea 17 years, 1 month ago

Quote: Kenon

And it just takes one mistake to start the cycle. I think the only way to kill this v3 thing everyone has to shut up about it. The staff has to stop talking about v3 and work more on it. Members have to shut up and be happy with v2, and that includes me.

Well, you know what? This is going off topic. This was about how publicity helped in delaying projects, and I think we have that set now.

Cesar 17 years, 1 month ago

this feels like Phoenix Wright so..

Case 1:V3 is announced, causes quite a stir of excitement

Case 2:Excitement has stopped and V3 is forgotten. Then they take suggestions and say it is within the summer's horizon.

Case 3:Many people now believe V3 is doomed for ever. V3 is then publicized some more to create hype.

Case 4:Downtime occurs. V3 is in the mind of few people, and mods think it is funny and say V3 is being released. Causes a huge wave of excitement

Case 5:Arcalyth releases blurred screenshot of V3. It causes an enormous wave of excitement and dissapointment. It looks like it's going well, however, it means that V3 has been worked on very little by mods.

Now, last time I checked we rarely bring V3 up except in jokes of impossibility or time to be released: E.g. Pigs will fly before V3 is finished.

yes, I thought that it would be a lot harder for a website to be created if it is a team, HOWEVER, suggestions for V3 were of the people, for the people and to the people. This means the team itself has to decide what is good and bad for the website, which is why, if someone was smart, they would make a team to filter out good ideas from bad. And those from plausible to impossible. It is just laziness why they won't think.

yes, V3 probably has gone through graphic changes, but it's no reason why it takes so long. plus, designing graphically before coding it is a lot smarter…

depends on the needs. Would you take the $100 and get food right now or would you wait any time between 2 days to 5 months to get $120 to get food? Now assume they were all coins, would you take a minimum of 300 coins (assuming they didn't have dollar coins or half dollar coins since they don't have paper currencty) each weighing about 3 ounces. It would equal about 100 pounds…

Kenon 17 years, 1 month ago

Yes. I believe we have reached a point, basically saying that it's both that caused. I believe what I posted under Edit 2 is approximately what the opinion median is.

I agree that we should be happy with v2 for now at least. It won't be long until v3 comes out anyways.

Also, nice recap of the events, Pac. Too bad your argument came slightly too late.